Evgeni Golov wrote at 2008-02-11 10:25:

It is? The only localized stuff I see are the entrys in the list, which is userdefined (you get "normal" Debian GNU/Linux <kernel> after installation).

However, you should be able to navigate through GRUB even on japanese (it's just pressing e and b) - I once had to use a Windows machine on japanese (i can speak german russian and english, but no japanese) what was pretty fun, as when you know the structure of the UI, the language does not care anymore.

Anand Kumria wrote at 2008-02-11 12:00:

I've found that even if I know the structure of the UI, it is still difficult.

What I'm trying to get across is that having the entries in the list localised is great -- having the ability to display those entries in a common baseline would be better.

I don't speak Catalan, so I don't know if the first entry is "Boot from the RAID partition" and the second is "Boot the recovery image from the network" or ...

Paul "TBBle" Hampson wrote at 2008-02-11 12:08:

The only localisation in the screen shot was the menu entries, which are plain text in the config file. To delocalise them, 'e' would probably suffice, as mentioned in English at the bottom of the screen shot.

^_^

Comments on the blog post suggest that they're actually proverbs, not real descriptive menu entries, anyway.

As far as Windows localisation goes, they don't localise keyboard shortcuts (or at least MS doesn't. I dunno about third parties). This means that if you close your eyes, it operates exactly like your fingers expect it to.

I for one like the idea that a Japanese user could have Grub entries that actually describe in Japanese what they are going to do, removing one more barrier for non-English speakers trying to boot their systems.

Anand Kumria wrote at 2008-02-11 12:15:

'e', to "edit" the entry would work well for you or I. We both probably know grub syntax.

Imagine trying to assist your friend half-way around the world and they only see French and you only know what the English entries are.

Yes, you could press "e" and have them, painfully, read out the details and then you could try a few fixes. Or if 'e' meant "English mode" then you could say "try the one with the word recovery in it".

An Internet Dog wrote at 2008-02-11 18:47:

This is a very anglo-centric comment, which, it seems to me, is exactly why apps need more localisation! ;)

At best, there should be an option to switch locales when starting it. You can always keep your own disk with grub in your favourite language, though, and leave localisation code out of the bootloader altogether (maybe in the installer?)

Russell Coker wrote at 2008-02-11 22:39:

One thing that's worth noting is that even people who speak the non-English language in question may prefer it in English.

When working in the Netherlands I occasionally had Dutch colleagues searching the office for a machine with the English language version of their software. Sometimes the translation of menus was so awful that they had to look at the English version and then count the number of rows in the menu to determine the correct one.

While this isn't directly related to your point it's something that's really worth keeping in mind when discussing translations. The Unix method of setting an environment variable is a good one, but of course it won't work for a boot loader.

PS I hated it when someone asked me if I was using the English version of Windows - no, I'm not using any version of Windows!

Chris Cunningham wrote at 2008-02-12 00:04:

Erm, yeah. Rather than assuming that it would be easier to help silly foreigners if they would stop using their moon-languages for a bit, it would seem than localising manuals so that they could help themselves (along with enhancing the usability of applications so that they're intuitive enough without language) would seem to be the better solution here.

- Chris

Anand Kumria wrote at 2008-02-12 00:44:

Chris,

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you would enhance the bootloader (that is what GRUB is) so that:

- it is nicely localised - a technical person who does not speak, read, or understand the localised language in any way, shape or form, can assist them if things go wrong.

Once the bootloader has done its job, solving this problem is easy.

Before things are started, though, how would you do it?

Paul "TBBle" Hampson wrote at 2008-02-12 21:30:

You'd face the same problem trying to help someone who's grub menu options were:

Pork Pie

Mince Pie

Plate of chips

It's not the language that is making you unable to understand the options, it's the options. I don't care if it says "Pork Pie" or "Le Porke Pi", either way it says in English at the bottom "hit e to edit" and then you get commands, which are the only useful things you can rely on here, unless you choose to trust the freetext menu entry labels.

I trust the freetext menu entry labels up until they don't do what I expect. (ie. fail to produce a pork pie from the DVD burner)